Gilley says Country Crossing facing crossroads
Published: January 3, 2009
Updated: January 4, 2009
Investors have made developer Ronnie Gilley an offer he wants to refuse – to move Country Crossing to casino-friendly Mississippi.
Gilley says he’s committed to keeping the project in Houston County, but investors are nervous about a recent anti-gambling task force created by Gov. Bob Riley.
“We’re 100 percent committed to Houston County,” Gilley said in an exclusive interview with the Eagle Saturday. “There’s no intent of moving the project.”
However, Gilley is leaving his options out there on the table since Riley called a press conference last Monday to announce the creation of an anti-gambling task force, as a response to a recent increase in bingo halls which house casino-like electronic slot machines that are forbidden under state law.
Many entertainment establishments assert their machines are legal under local charity bingo amendments, but the state Supreme Court ruled two years ago that slot machines and slot-like machines are banned by the state Constitution. Questions have arisen regarding the legality of electronic bingo machines and whether local amendments that allow paper bingo apply to electronic bingo. Electronic bingo differs from electronic slot machines in that bingo players compete against one another, where slots players compete against the house.
Some more recent Country Crossing investors reacted to Riley’s announcement by pulling their support, but Gilley said the initial investors remain committed to do the project – regardless of where it has to go.
“I’ve got partners who are furious (with the governor’s action),” he said. “Nothing more could have been done before we started (this project), to clarify state law on bingo. The Attorney Generals’ opinions are clear. We are operating within the parameters of what the Constitution allows.”
The Mississippi offer came from gaming and real estate investor Rick Carter, a Dothan native. Carter said he had considered investing in the Country Crossing project in Dothan, but reconsidered after Riley’s announcement of the task force.
“He’s (Riley) destroying the economic development of Dothan, Alabama, and that’s a sad thing,“ Carter said.
Carter said he has offered to let Gilley develop Country Crossing on property he owns adjacent to a casino in Mississippi or on other property in the state. Gilley identified the casino as the Island View Casino Resort in Gulfport.
Gilley has said he is confident in the legality of electronic bingo in Houston County, and he would like clarification of the governor’s intent.
“If his (Riley’s) intention is to close illegal operations in the state of Alabama –- great,“ Gilley said. “There’s an abundance of illegal operations now. If his intent is to close down electronic bingo, there’s plenty of court cases declaring electronic bingo legal.“
Gilley has already made a major commitment to bringing Country Crossing to Houston County. In October, he bought 375 acres off Highway 231 South at a price of $19.84 million, or about $53,000 per acre.
He estimated the current investment in the project is around $45 million, and said George Jones, a recent Kennedy Center honoree, is committed to building a $9 million Possum Holler dinner theatre.
“What the governor has done, it’s like someone saying they are going to put in a $70 million resort hotel and halfway into construction, the governor says resort hotels are illegal. People may think that’s not a good comparison, but comparing bingo and crystal meth is not a good comparison either.”
After Gilley announced the project last February, a group of loca ministers, mainly Baptist, and area businessmen, came out in opposition to the electronic bingo component, saying it would bring crime and addiction into the community. A number of those business interests are staunch Republicans and considered Riley supporters who usually push for more economic development in the state.
The Country Crossing project is primarily an entertainment venue, but Gilley said the only way the project is doable financially is alongside a funding mechanism like electronic charitable bingo.
“The reality of it is that the entertainment component of it is going to suffer for three to five years,“ Gilley said. “After three to five years, entertainment will outpace the bingo. You have to have a build-up stage. No one’s going to speculate on entertainment in the existing environment.“
The Country Crossing project has been touted as a potential economic powerhouse for Houston County that could provide more than 1,000 jobs and millions of dollars in tax revenue and donations to charity from bingo proceeds. Gilley has pledged a minimum of $2 million in bingo proceeds will go to charities each year.
Gilley said it will go – somewhere.
“The people in Mississippi have followed this project from the beginning. This project would work in the Panhandle of Florida where there has been an offer to give us land. It would work on the Gulf Coast of Mississippi,” he said.
Gilley said he has also been contacted by gambling interests in south Florida and in Kansas City, regarding locating Country Crossing there.
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Reader Reactions
Mr. Kolkman,
I don’t know Professor Robert Goodman, nor am I familiar with his work. I also don’t know your University of New Orleans economist. I did note that the study you cite was done in 1994? And typically, they are specific to a certain region, like Atlantic City. A garden spot, no less.
Perhaps you should look at the final report of the National Gambling Impact Study Commission (NGISC). It was ordered by Congress, paid for by all of us, and took about two years, I think. It was completed about 1999 at considerable cost to us taxpayers, as they used silly little researchers like Harvard, the National Research Council of the National Academy of Sciences (NRC) and the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago (NORC). Of course, had you mentioned this study, you wouldn’t be able to put out there as facts all the myths that you have published by those World renowned researchers at the University of New Orleans.
The study would tell you that while most of the country understands your fanatical religious rants, 80% simply do not agree with you. According to a National Survey done in 1998, three of four Americans who attend religious service regularly (at least once a week) consider casino gaming an acceptable form of entertainment.
The NGISC made a number of remarkable findings. The commission clearly and unequivocally found that “destination type resorts,“ ... Research conducted for the commission confirms that casino gaming creates jobs and reduces the level of unemployment and government assistance in communities that have legalized it.
The National Research Council of the National Academy of Sciences found that “gambling appears to have net economic benefits for economically depressed communities.“ Additional research for the commission found that, “...a new casino of even limited attractiveness, placed in a market that is not already saturated, will yield positive economic benefits on net to its host economy.“ And the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago determine that “those communities closest to casinos experienced a 12% to 17% drop in welfare payments, unemployment rates and unemployment insurance.
It is so cliche to talk about Addiction, Bankruptcy and Crime when discussing gaming, but the commission decided to address that too, for they knew you would talk about it, however wrong, but talk none the less.
So here we go again, addiction, or chronic gamblers. The study was done in 1997 by Harvard Medical School’s Division on Addiction. Sorry, UNO was busy. NORC also weighed in, as did The NRC (same guys from above). They all agreed that roughly 1% of the gambling population have a problem. And yes, we have all heard that greater availability means the number is growing right? Wrong, 1970, first federal gambling commission found the number of “probable compulsive gamblers” at .077%, virtually identical. Similar studies in Texas, Minnesota and yes, your beloved South Dakota, all found that the number of pathological gamblers to be stable, despite the increase in the availability to gamble. The truth is, there is a certain small segment of the population that are going to be addicted to something. We all know one. It could be alcohol, drugs, sex, politics, blogging about bingo, busting Ronnie Gilley’s chops or even RELIGION. The remainder of the truth is that they will fulfill their addition regardless of it’s legal status. But growing up in Louisiana, you probably never experienced a “dry” county. Neither has Alabama, although in many counties, it is THE LAW.
Bankruptcy, I thought you would never ask! There is absolutely no credible evidence establishing that link. The big study cited earlier found “the casino effect is not statistically significant for…bankruptcy.“ Just for a little more heat, the Treasury Department looked in 1999 and released a report finding “no connection between state bankruptcy rates and either the extent of or introduction of casino gambling.“ This report was requested by a leading opponent of gaming in the US Congress after he discovered that the commission’s findings were not what he had hoped, costing the taxpayers an additional $250k, but we aren’t naming names. The Seniors you talk about, according to the commission, they were the ones who were “most likely to set a budget” before gaming and sticking to it. They also cited entertainment and social interaction as major reasons to participate.
And now the big one Crime. Again, the federal study found “...the casino effect is not statistically significant for any of the ...crime outcome measures…“ They went further to cite a study in which they found no documentation of a causal relationship between crime and casinos.
If you have ever been in a casino, be it in Macon County or Las Vegas, you will likely find me, a white female 50-70 and smoking. What - not your typical picture of a hardened criminal? Sorry, but that IS the typical casino gambler. (ok i lied, I don’t smoke). Ronnie, could you put in a small smoke free area for those of us that don’t smoke but don’t mind others who are free (at least for the moment, in this Country) to choose?
As for corruption and organized crime, the federal study also put that to bed quickly with two very important findings: One, they laughed at the notion that there is an organized crime association to today’s gaming industry. And second, the corporate entry into the industry has removed even organized crime from ownership and management of any segment of the industry.
The report is easy to find online, and is very enlightening. I promise you won’t like it. It is several thousand pages long. I apologize for para-phrasing, but I think that I have related the bulk of the taxpayer’s findings.
As for the Governor, I have a few questions of my own: Like timing? Where have you been for six years? Why now? And why is it that a former DA from Birmingham that was NOT elected by the State as a whole, should step into the jurisdiction of the man that we DID elect as a State as a whole?
We can all disagree as to the morality of gambling. However, the Constitution of Alabama is clear that bingo is allowed in some 19 jurisdictions. Houston County is one of them. The amendment is also clear on who can conduct bingo in Houston County. And although it really doesn’t matter, I’m confused by your suggestion that “this aint church bingo” why is it that “church bingo” as you have suggested, would be appropriate? You understand the meaning of hypocrisy don’t you?, If you don’t like the amendment, there is a mechanism for changing it. You can find that online too.
By the way, post your picture online so I can say hi next time I see you in Biloxi. I won’t tell your preacher I saw you.
**helmsce** 2 thumbs-up for making an excellent point, sir.
Moron, coward, grow a brain, menial, schlepping, family tree that does not fork, religious fanatics, thugs, pathetic, babbling, Mr. Righteous, village idiots. These are not my words,“helmsce” and “pocketsmcgraw”. These are the words of other posters at this forum. If you can not reason or debate from facts you attack and demean the other person. Classic political strategy. Put the facts up here. Where was CC going to be built first? Was gambling included in the original plans? Post a copy of the New Houston county laws concerning gambling.
I too work in the construction field “joft”. I have wittnesed co-workers get paid on Wednsday and come the weekend they have to borrow money so they can go party again, and never spend a dime on gambling. People that blow every penny that they have worked for are going to blow the money whether it is by gambling or any other vise they might have. And for your information, I am not slow, a servant, a coward, nor a moron. Sounds like you might be the moron for verbally attacking someone for their views. You have a nice day!
**Joft** you are a Moron, coward, grow a brain, menial, schlepping,family tree that does not fork, religious fanatic, thug, pathetic, babbling, Mr. Righteous, village idiot.
Moron, coward, grow a brain, menial, schlepping, family tree that does not fork, religious fanatics, thugs, pathetic, babbling, Mr. Righteous, village idiots.
Does not sound like reasonable debate to me. I have a few questions for the people involved with Country Crossing. What are the new laws that allow bingo in CC.??
The old laws that did not allow it are on the web. Why are the new laws not available without a written request? Why were the people not allowed to vote on the changes? Cost? Surely the millions coming to the people of Houston county would make it worthwhile? Are did the investors know it would never pass once people found out the truth about “Charitable Bingo Machines”? This is not the VFW or a church social bingo.
Texas has seen fit to limit each electronic bingo machine to 200 cards! The machines will track 600 at their max. With 1500 machines in one hall you can sell 900000 cards for each game or only 300000 with the Texas settings. Surely I must be mistaken, yes?
I have heard CC and Branson, Mo. being compared as being similar. Please do not tell BRANSON as they will take legal action to keep their city being linked to any place that has gambling. They want to keep the family vacation idea valid.
I grew up in south Louisiana. I played the slots as a child. A policeman was at the machine next to me. I worked construction with men who gambled their weekly check in the bar on the way home on Friday. When video poker was released in my home parish, the elderly depleted their savings quickly. This is from my sister working in a small town bank. Some of the parishes have since rescinded the vote. My son ran a nightclub in the French Quarter. When Harrods opened, he made the statement that tourists only spend so much money when they vacation. What gambling takes; the restaurants, tour guides, the clubs, other services lose. He was right.
I retired to Alabama for the cost of living, medical centers, climate, low crime, and NO gambling. Well I was mistaken I guess.
joft
I believe the recent article and statment from the Gov said the taskforce was looking at all gambling state wide especially the electronic bingo machines. No one’s casino or dog track will be left out. He is not signaling out Gilley or anyone else. He beleive the Alabama constitution does not allow the electric slot machines as Troy king defined them that they do. All of this was in the recent article on the press conference. I shouldn’t be dropping any bombshell when I say if the Gov believes that this type of gambling is not allowed that he is bound by his office to get to bottom of it. If it does allow it than it will be over soon, he’s only got two years left.
Again, some of you on these posts are really disturbed to say some of the things you do to others.
I wonder wher the D-eagle staff are when such ugly stuff is being said on these boards?
I don’t understand what the problem is with having Country Crossing in Houston County. I don’t understand why Bob Riley has a problem with bingo machines. Is it because he’s not personally profiting from it? What about the new casino that is opening in Atmore, AL? Is Bob Riley getting a cut of that revenue? Why didn’t he object to that? What about Victory Land in Shorterville? I don’t hear Bob complaining about the revenue that the state rakes in from that. Maybe betting on dogs is not as much of a sin as bingo machines.
Question for JKolkman…..If I won a $1,000,000.00 mega bingo jackpot at Country Crossing (just say such a thing would exist), name me ONE church that would turn down the $100,000.00 tithe…..and you know it’s a sin to lie.
Gilley has now started calling names in his posts since it seems he can’t refute the facts against this casino style gambling. (I’d rather be called Righteous although I know I’m a sinner too, than be responsible for one person’s downfall into gambling their groceries, electricity, or family support money away.) Let’s see if you can refute the below facts….instead of the name calling.
Another point you said months ago was that you didn’t need the bingo to make CC work…what has changed? Where you bluffing? I feel you just don’t want to say what we all know, you and your friends stand to make a fortune personally and they won’t invest unless they get a piece of the gambling action. When is enough money enough for you? Anyone can see that this is not a community service your providing out of the kindness of your heart, it is pure greed at any cost and on the backs of the many losers that will most certainly feed your casino style machines.
About your “holier than thou speeches” comment from my other post on the other Dothan article, I believe I still have the freedom to make a disagreeing point in this country it’s contained in the 2nd Amendment. I guess when you don’t like it name calling is all you can come up with.
There is a silent majority of Christians that vote against this kind of stuff in our Wiregrass communities because of the harm it brings. That is why the Houston County Commission would let the people vote on it, they decided they knew better than the people. It was a slick surprise kept quiet until the last moment and you know it Mr. Gilley. Why if it’s such a good idea do you have to campaign so hard for it with all kinds of rallies and money and dinners to grease the palms of local elected officials.
Like I said at the beginning, I’d also like you to refute the statistics that I listed in my earlier posts about the effect of gambling on families and communities instead of side stepping them with name.
I’ll list some facts again and give you the opportunity to refute them so everyone can see how great Gambling is for the Wiregrass:
1: “Professor Robert Goodman, in his study entitled, “Legalized Gambling as a Strategy for Economic Development”, describes the effect of gambling on local business. He indicates that a study in South Dakota a year after legalizing video gambling in the state did “... show significant declines for selected activities such as clothing stores, recreation services, business services, auto dealers and service stations.“ Professor Goodman’s report, further quotes Timothy Ryan, a University of New Orleans economist, who reported that a proposed casino in New Orleans , “.. Will direct over $62 million from all retail businesses, excluding hotels.” He reported that in, “Atlantic City, homelessness increased after the introduction of casinos, while clothing stores and eating and drinking establishments declined. Only a few retail stores opened in the off-Boardwalk and downtown areas.“ He further stated, “Researchers calculated that the growth of crime in the Atlantic City region reduced property values by $24,000,000 for each easily accessible community to Atlantic City…” He points out that compulsive gambling is a major influence causing regional economic decline. His research, along with the research of Yaffee and Politzer show that compulsive gamblers drain regional economies of billions of dollars per year because of costly social programs and damage to existing businesses.
2. Research sponsored by the Illinois Business Review in the Spring of 1994 was done on four riverboat communities to determine if the communities really experienced increases in employment as promised by gambling proponents. After studying the employment figures for these four communities, the reports states that the, “...simple before and after comparisons suggest that riverboats did not create the jobs that were promised, and in fact, had little effect on reducing unemployment.“ They further found that, “.. none of the riverboats for which a full year of post-opening data was available showed a significant effect of the riverboat on reducing unemployment or increasing employment, though one showed a significant negative effect on employment.“ The Albuquerque Journal reported in June of 1992 that riverboat towns in Iowa suffered the loss of hundreds of jobs because of the capricious will of the gambling industry when Fort Madison had its two floating casinos pulled out unexpectedly. Casinos promise to create thousands of jobs, but Professor John Kindt, a professor at University of Illinois, said, “The field research indicates that nationwide you stand to lose 1.5 jobs for every job the casinos create. In Chicago the field research indicated that 2 to 2.75 jobs would be lost if a land-base d casino were built and that is why Governor Edgar vetoed the proposal.” Kindt says of gambling in general, “...for every dollar legalized gambling interests indicate is contributed in taxes, it really costs the taxpayer $3.00 to address the increased socio-economic costs to society.“ “
Gee Gilley, This sounds just like the tripe you keep trying to sell to the good people of the Wiregrass….some (very few) get rich while everyone else suffers in the local economy. We still haven’t seen you sell your plan based on facts…just wild unsubstantiated claims of wealth and riches for everyone in the Wiregrass.
Gilley there is an old adage that says…”if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.” Well this one’s a whopper you’re trying to sell in Houston County and the Wiregrass.
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